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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:30 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:31 am
Posts: 3134
Location: United States
[QUOTE=Brock Poling] Carlton. Currently, all senior positions at ASIA are voluntary.

[/QUOTE]

Bravo!!!    My hat is tipping as we speak!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:53 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
Have just been reading the "ASIA Letdown" thread.
That thread addresses my every question and concern on the subject, and
I have signed up today as both a board subscriber and as an ASIA
member. It was inspiring to read luminaries like Erlewine & Ford among
others including Sylvain and Bill Moll forthrightly addressing the
difficulties mentioned earlier in this thread.

I think it might be a good idea if ASIA were to ask OLF, MIMF & whoever
else to host a forum dedicated to ASIA and its direction (and lingering
problems), and to have a "customer service rep" visit each forum regularly
& do outreach, answer questions, gather feedback, solicit articles, get
outstanding problems resolved, and otherwise making sure each online
community gets good service and generally show the flag.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:34 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
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It is kind of happening now. Jim and I are very involved with this board, and I know Bill reads MIMF regularly. So it is sort of happening already.

And, the ASIA site has a discussion board too.

But it is a good idea for us to "be everywhere"


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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:38 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
I understand that it's occuring here spontaneously, thanks to you, Lance
& the other ASIA members & volunteers; I think it's a wonderful thing. I
also think there would be tangible benefit to making it official & formally
asking other boards to be involved - it would send a STRONG message, it
would accelerate the clean-up of any lingering aggro / issues from the
old days, and it would bring the org TO people in a way that is unique to
online communities. It would also decentralise the member-support
duties & create board-representative opportunities for volunteers.

I suppose at least some of this might be better-placed on the ASIA board:
is it working? The website overall seems pretty non-functional.

Another thing: get the magazine ON MAGAZINE STANDS - Highland
Hardware, Tower Records, Barnes & Noble. I know news-stand revenues
aren't great, but think of it as really cheap guerilla marketing: putting the
magazine in front of the public will generate awareness / interest in
people we'll never reach otherwise. Sell back-issues & memberships on
Amazon, even, so when people are searching for books on the subject,
ASIA comes up w/ the other related links.

Anyway, sorry if all this is out-of-place!chmood38648.4892824074


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:44 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Once again - lots of great feedback, and good ideas - thanks to everyone!

By the way, the reason you don't see me in here more often is that I'm only good for a couple of "brilliant" paragraphs every three to six months, and I really have to save those for my little column in Guitarmaker these days...

We do, and will continue, to work closely with the Lutherie forums... At least those that are interested in working with us. Lance, for example, has been terrific regarding shared ideas for mutual growth between our two organizations, while others view us as a competitor and possible threat to their very existance. I also believe there are still a few remaining trust issues for some folks, and that we have a lot of "proving ourselves" to do. These are battles we will fight on our own merrits, and I believe that, over time, as we introduce more and more consistancy and regularity, most of those few remaining walls will crumble.

News stand distribution is another question however. Most magazine distributors are not interested in "small" titles with highly focused content - it just doesn't pay the distributor to give magazines like ours prime real estate on a very competitive stand where HUGE titles compete for position and, if a few were to take that chance on us, the costs would be prohibitive when you consider that we would have to double or triple our current print run, on the off-chance that we might gain a few new members through news stand sales. It's simply not a "paying" proposition.

One of the differences not mentioned, between ASIA and GAL, is discussion exactly like this. I'll preface these next remarks by saying that I have great respect for Tim and their organization, and have been a member of GAL, on and off, for many years - there is no animosity between us anymore - at all.

There are, however, operational differences spawned both by ASIA's original concept of "Board and member run", AND by the fact that we are all volunteers who work for the membership as opposed to a salary - (which I may re-negotiate after the crunch of this last 8 months! ). While both organizations are technically "not for profit" corporations, our operation is transparent - our books are open, our policies are set by imput from the membership, and I have no problem, whatsoever, discussing our "inner workings" in a forum such as this. it's all out on the table for discussion.

That's not to say that GAL has some "hidden agenda", or that they're doing something they don't want you to know about - they don't, and they aren't. It's just that they follow a different business model. A good business model to be sure, but one that possibly allows for a bit less interaction from the membership.

If you're simply a "consumer", and prefer to let the organization do all of the work so that you may sit back and enjoy it - and there is nothing particularly wrong with that - GAL fills that need. If, however, you are proactive, and wish to be a real part of growing and maintaining an organization through participation and volunteerism, well, this was one of the original precepts ASIA was founded on. The original group that started this association didn't particularly "hate" the GAL, they simply wanted to have more of a voice in their association's policies and direction.

Now, having set my head out on that chopping block, I'll admonish you all to join BOTH organizations - it's all good.

We'll continue to work with Lance in any and all ways that we can find to mutually benefit both the community, and our organizations respectively, and I believe that ASIA and OLF have a lot of possibilities in front of them. There will be those who cry "favoritism", or "cronyism", but, their absence from the mix will only be due to their lack of asking to be a part of it, just as the absence of a particular subject matter or topic in the magazine will only be due to it's lack of submission. (How'd you like the way I worked that in here, Jim?)

ASIA is about participation. Write something, volunteer for something, take an active role in where we go and what we do. It truely is YOUR organization.

Bill




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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:54 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:25 pm
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Location: United States
Awesome Bill. Great history, and the admonishment was well said.

Looks like you had several great paragraphs there.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:22 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 372
Location: Golden, Colorado
First name: Roger
Last Name: Labbe
As far as newsstands go, I have bought several issues of GuitarMaker (or whatever the ASIA magazine is called) at Tower Records (the one in DC on 21st street).



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:10 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Though no one can figure out, or remember, who made that arrangement in the first place - or when it was made for that matter, several boxes of magazines were being sent to Tower Records - and only to that single store on the west coast, every time an issue was published.

Not very many actually got sold out there either - the rest got their covers torn off to be sent back to us - standard accounting practice - and were dumpstered. I decided we could use those copies to better advantage elsewhere, and we dropped them from the distribution list for issue #52. I have no plans to go back in - that is, unless someone gives me a really good dollars & cents, (sense), reason to do so.Bill Moll38651.5496875


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:26 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
My attempts to edit the above are getting kicked back to me, as was my last attempt to post a new message...help

OK, that worked... We'll add to this one -

You said you bought "what ever that magazine was called" in D.C. That tells me that the weat coast location is merely a distribution hub, and that we were in many more of their locations than I had thought.

That actually makes the combined sales figures for all stores in total look even more grim, and that convinces me that we made the right decision.

BillBill Moll38651.5616666667


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:55 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5915
Location: United States
Here's the trick

You can't get more than three "re:"s on the front of your message.

If that happens just remove them, or change the title of the post.


_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:03 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Reminds me of the line in that commercial... "Well, who invented THAT rule?"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:12 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5915
Location: United States

The ghosts in the machine.... that's who...


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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:49 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
Bill, thanks for coming back in on the topic!

The Tower Records idea was just that - an idea; it's been tried, and there
was no payoff, so that's settled.

That said, here's a related notion (if you're wondering, I used to handle
periodicals for a large independent regional bookseller (now sadly
defunct)): solicit resale subscriptions and or "supporting memberships"
from places like the Guitar Shop (LA?), Maple Street (ATL), and Woodsongs
(Boulder) & other places that sell high-end and/or hand-made. Even if
they keep their issue(s), they'll be a part of the community, and better
informed, and aware of a wider range of luthiers. Larger independent
booksellers WILL often subscribe to a publication & resell their issues in
order to offer the public something they can't get elsewhere (more
persuasive given the MegaMart approach).

I'm just thinking out loud here, and not in any way telling YOU what YOU
ought to do; what *I* ought to do is get my new life squared away,
attend the next Symposium & plan on volunteering for something. The
way I look at it, either you're a passenger, or you're crew, and I just don't
have a passenger's temperament!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:12 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Charlie,

     Sounds like your background is right in line with some of the thoughts Brock and I have had for the future of the book. Talk with Brock about this stuff - we can always use more "thinking out loud", and you may be familiar with some "nooks and crannies" that we're not.

     Aren't you sorry you raised your hand?

     BillBill Moll38651.6338194444


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:03 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:31 am
Posts: 3134
Location: United States
In reference to what Charlie wrote above...In the early/mid '90's Elderly Instruments in Lansing, MI offered copies of Guitarmaker in their magazine section (honcho Stan Werbin was very active in ASIA at the time), and that's how I initially became aware of the organization. They kept back issues, and kept them on display rather than returning them--treating them more like reference materials than periodicals. It took a few issues, but I got hooked and finally joined. Now, I may have been the ONLY person so motivated, I don't know; but, it seemed like a good marketing tool at the time. The guys at high-end shops love guitars as much as we do, so if ASIA can get them fired up enough to join, and pass along that enthusiasm to their customers (and repair staff!), it seems like it would only make the Association stronger.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:34 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Carlton,

     I agree, and that's a good idea for someone to work on, follow up, and sell through to those types of high-end retailers.

     There were a lot of things that "used to be" in place in the past, but the collective "memory hole" has sucked all evidence of their existence into oblivion. Who set those programs up? When did they stop receiving the magazine? Why did they stop? These are opportunities that we'll probably have to treat as "new business" - start from scratch with a whole new retail program, and go out there and sell it.

     Do I see another raised hand?
     
     Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:54 am 
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Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:46 am
Posts: 1315
Location: Branson, MO
First name: stan
Last Name: thomison
City: branson
State: mo
Zip/Postal Code: 65616
Country: united states
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Bill moving to Springfield or Branson in Spring. Hope to drop by and see you. Family lives Springfield in Banking. Now lost in Maine, but loving it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:26 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Stan,

     You're more than welcome to visit, and we'll look forward to it. Feel free to bring a banker as well.


     One piece of advice though, live in Springfield - visit Branson.

Bill
Bill Moll38651.8939930556


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:37 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
[QUOTE=Bill Moll] Charlie,

Sounds like your background is right in line with some of the thoughts
Brock and I have had for the future of the book.[/QUOTE]
Just one of my many incarnations...
But you said 'book', not 'magazine' - book?

[QUOTE]Talk with Brock about this stuff - we can always use more
"thinking out loud", and you may be familiar with some "nooks and
crannies" that we're not.[/QUOTE]
Glad to!

[QUOTE]Aren't you sorry you raised your hand? [/QUOTE]
Ummm - I have to go to my Volunteers Anonymous meeting now....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:42 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
"Book?"

Printer's jargon for just about any multi-paged printed piece with a spine on it. Brochures, magazines, portfolios... They're all "books" to the guys with ink in their veins.

In some of my many past incarnations, I've done time in advertising, PR, commercial art, etc., and was the Marketing Director and Associate Publisher of a regional fashion and lifestyle magazine for a couple of years. After working in that industry for so long, I guess the term just stuck with me.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:10 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
Thanks for the light - my exposure to that end of things has been minimal
to nonexistent, so the lingo is new.

I thought perhaps you were hinting at putting out bound volumes of
Guitarmaker back-issues....


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